Uh he should be he should be joining um I guess at least you said that to me uh in during my morning uh so that was yesterday night for him um so I guess he’ll be joining would you like to start out so far with uh telling everybody like What your position is and what you do uh at Harmony and thank you yeah yeah yeah we can start by that um so I I’ve been with uh with the Fifth Harmony for uh go into two years now I guess uh a bit two years in two years now because we Are already injured yeah it’s been two years without Harmony right now I agree with the community before uh working with uh with peops if you guys know about the group um and since then with Harmony I’ve been involved with the uh devops stuff and protocol testing and of almost Everything now which is a bit crazy but you know it is what it is right now yeah thank you so I I noticed that there was um Talk In The Forum about possibly making this like uh starting out with like a 25 percent uh emission reduction to go towards recovery And then possibly going to the 50 after a few months or so is that something that um you guys uh possibly rewriting or something so there’s something definitely possible okay um now I don’t think we are trying to go in in that area first um what I would suggest if if the majority Of the violatators are not happy with the 50 percent emission right uh and just reject that uh coming snap shutter okay um and uh and maybe we can have as well later on a a talk vote on the actual uh percentage that everyone wants right Uh but my feel is that the talk Forum right the discussion that we have there doesn’t have the entire validated Community you know so um that’s why to me um having a vote on talk doesn’t represent the entirely the evaluator community in Fuller okay Um so for now I I think we are still going with 50 okay um and if everyone is not happy with that number right just putting into the water right oh yeah you’re right it said and I know the top forms hard to navigate through and that’s one of the reasons why we’re Doing this space is to get more people to for one be aware of hip 30 and two to hopefully join in on the conversation and get input yep yeah I should say I got a question so there was kind of a rough estimate of I guess if we said if we Use 50 of the emissions for recovery that the recovery uh would be about 18 months versus if you just left everything as is it’s like 90 months I guess what what numbers are we basing those on is there any way we can actually put that into like tangible Like the value of Harmony One and just an actual tangible method so we can understand um right my question is if one of the price of one continued to decline wouldn’t the recovery take longer right and that’s the possibility because other simulation that we did uh I Believe Theo was the one doing it and the [ __ ] I have seen uh previously was based on a two cent um one token pricer for now that’s what we have okay but yeah if he goes down there’s definitely a possibility that it goes longer yeah All right I follow so at two cents is what it was based off of so 18 months from the time we start uh 50 percent emissions towards recovery so at one cent now we’re looking at potentially 36 months you’re right yeah so which what I brought up earlier to the group was Okay so the price of one continually declines uh there has to be some sort of like equal equilibrium where we’re also trying to like onboard projects at the same time to increase traffic so you can actually increase the value of Harmony One is there is there like some type of Campaign or anything I don’t know if you know the answer to that and I’m sorry if I’m asking you the wrong questions or if you’re not the right yeah no worries but um as far as like the core team is there’s some like planning develop to have Some type of strategy to you know uh deploy active campaigns to onboard new projects and also do recovery at the same time it sounds like it’s a kind of we just focus on recovery it’s kind of a double-edged sword right um so so what you just said is the main Reason why we it’s not sure if you guys have followed the uh discussion on Discord in regards of Tranco right um while you just said is exactly the reason why um if you’re not paying them in full the bad data okay because we want to keep some cash for Exactly what you just mentioned yeah yeah I follow it seems at the moment Frank is the only D5 project we have on our Harmony um it’s not the only D5 project if you want to look at it because uh Sushi slot is still there right uh it’s just a trunk Kill if they have to leave right I’m very sad because they have more than just a D5 platform right they also have a games and other stuff which is what uh we would be lacking if they have to liver right because Sushi is not in audio order next aggregator that we Have they’re not really a game now okay so they participate into the ecosystem right which is very good um but to me it would be very sad to to see track your living up how can we uh how can we work with them to prevent that So to to me I don’t have any control on that and what you are trying to do is to be fair with all the recovery right uh providers uh and the the hope is that with uh the emission that we are if even if you ask Me right now right I even I won’t try to go with a higher number right uh so that you can recover uh from the hack faster right uh but I understand that if we do so uh the reward will be much less for everyone impacting as well later right But I think here what we are trying to work at is trying to recover from the hack as soon as fast as we can right and still continue to um develop and uh have projects onboarded into the chain yeah strength main issue not necessarily uh the d-pegged assets but the Bad Harmony One debt I don’t know if you know the answer to that uh they have both actually okay because you have a bad debt but as well as the debug assets okay and from what I could read previously right there was something around the the uh that depend that wasn’t up to the market Okay and with the latest changes we they are going to follow the market price yeah yeah I follow I I brought up numerous times I don’t know how you guys feel about it uh to the track team perhaps I don’t know maybe we could work on something but uh Allowing the community to buy the Bad Harmony One debt with pegged assets and uh I’m somehow rewarding them with I don’t know maybe trank or something there could be some detail just something that we have discussed right um is the current um Harmony Foundation uh dedication rewards that we haven’t used at all I think what we want to do is to work with the evaluator Community as well um to see if they’re okay to use that those rewards for Recovery you know and we were thinking about you know using that we need to also repaid but that bad Debt you know so they are also thought that has been happening right and it’s just that they want to recover faster right and we but we are trying to do things at the same time with you know you guys may have great uh we are trying to have um a new Um text that’ll be coming with the latest compound at all so um yeah those are the things that we have been developing as well on the on the back end up hey Theo thanks for joining us hey thanks for having me um I can continue on uh the trunk um clarity as well Um um focus on that but also um was taken off of it um but yeah so it’s right like the the main part is the uh the clearing of the bad debt and when you have uh it’s the the main pool is all in one okay it’s the um The tq1 that needs to go out and the only way you can supply it is if you supply one and then users can pull out um and if you do anything below a one-to-one parity then now the incentives drop right and then your your bad debt isn’t cleared uh because you Need a hundred percent utilization of the funds that go in um but if you reduce that parity percentage then you can still potentially have users that uh um that are happy enough with the funds that that leave um and what we had originally been doing was was giving the one-to-one parody Um but I think this was um something that was that wasn’t fully thought out when we first started doing it at least from my understanding um and then after a review realized oh wait a minute like this is going one-to-one parody whereas the rest of recovery is is like 10 at One point it was like um Sixth Sense probably right 6.5 um and then then it was the analysis of saying okay so people who use defy and use the lending platform and we’re affected by the oracles um you have like a disparity I guess between those who just held assets Versus those who who participated in like a lending Market um my own personal view is that it shouldn’t necessarily be viewed as a parity dispute it should be more of an ecosystem dispute in which case we wouldn’t look at the one uh the one-to-one parody is different from the 10 parity it would be like the I don’t know if anybody has mentioned this earlier but like like an investment or like a um a support of an ecosystem partner so then it would be we wouldn’t be looking at it and being like oh why is it Different than 10 we would say okay this is what we need to do to have tranquil um continue on Harmony right in an Ideal World um clearing all their bad debt at 10 with the funds that uh Soph was saying we can do that right like uh the validator funds are about Um I mean on my thing I have it says 380 000 but uh with the one price I haven’t recalculated but that’s still like at a 10 parity um that’s that can easily clear it and possibly go towards additional funding to support the the team um but um If we continue with the 10 then there is the the possibility that the Tranquil team would move on right like that’s the the worst case scenario um on top of that it’s the there’s the initiatives for unit swap V3 the stable coin um and then lending and borrowing if There is the need for it and then a GMX or a Perpetual Exchange um so these initiatives are kind of to build The Primitives out on D5 because you mentioned earlier like tranquil is the only D5 uh there is if you swap but still like if if you think of Um like Harmony you find in your head like the first thing that comes up is tranquil um and we’ll we’ll continue to talk to them we’ll continue to have discussions um see if we can find something that we can move forward with together um but the 10 that decision Um I think has been made and we’re not moving from it so then now it’s it’s a question of uh with the Tranquil team is there a way that with the clearing of bad debt we could potentially give them more so that now it’s it’s uh clearing bad debt plus Support in that sense um the the main initiative would be focusing on all of the the different Primitives and making sure that there’s a use case for users because if you have recovery without use cases then people just get whole again or not whole again they’d get like 10 parity and then leave Right you need use cases for them to stay um and that’s what we’re we’re working on yeah so the the Bad Harmony one that on tranquil Finance I kind of asked this question itself earlier and maybe I’ll try to rephrase in a better way uh is there any way Like working with the community as far as maybe all the other active dials and whatnot that the community can actually work on purchasing the Bad Harmony one that with pegged access such as USD dollar stably and help them get out of that Harmony One bad debt more rapidly I’m Sure there’s some way we could be there’s some type of compensation we could work on like uh a reward probably the better word is that a feasible scenario yeah it’s a definitely a good uh question that you’re asking so the way that the bad diet gets cleared is you have to supply One tokens to then remove one tokens that that’s the the only route for for this clearing of bad debt uh so it wouldn’t really uh work with pegged assets necessarily but if the community wanted to get behind and Supply or um come up with a fund that is that Continues to be one-to-one parody um I I see nothing wrong with that so essentially we have to create some type of liquidity I I guess in my head this is what I’m thinking if we created some type of liquidity with I’m just going to use US dollar stably As an example doesn’t have to be that but uh if we use created a fund with a certain amount of money first question what what is the amount of bad debt tranquil owes so if you go to the marketplace it’s um the supply side if you go to V1 right On tranquil Finance I haven’t checked recently but um from last time I checked I think it was um a total of about uh 35 million one because you have to add um six point I think one uh million stone um or ST1 because that that’s included as well but The the bad debt is a quick way to look at it is the Tranquil um supply side or the the one the one who’s the on the lending side so right now it’s at 33.9 so you do 33.9 plus six so you get 39.9 and that’s in one tokens All right so about 40 million and one tokens which is about 420 000 at today’s value 450 something around foreign for the community to come up with together but nonetheless an initiative to start but if we created a pool technically hypothetically I guess if we created a Pool with 450 000 and we use that pool to purchase Harmony One and then we purchased the debt which tranquil finance that would get them out of the bad debt correct okay yeah that’s uh that’s something that’s been on my mind I’ve been I’ve been trying to communicate with the train Team maybe there’s some way we could work uh I don’t know with the trade team maybe you could arrange that uh myself and I don’t want to throw butt head out there but we’re we’re pretty active in the community and we you know we want to see this recover Maybe create some type of conversation it’s worth worth a try better than doing nothing in my opinion uh since you mentioned me I’d like to uh mention Hogs up there the third quarter of Sonic swap by electronic swap use them for a long time have a conversation with all the Texas he like turned into a robot though dude uh thanks for shedding some light on that subject would you like to tell everybody a little brief Introduction about you Phil like what your position is at Harmony and some of your background sure so um I’ve been in the space about since 2017.um started out with Bitcoin and ethereum and then just become became a complete Degen in cardano um for some reason or the other Um and then that brought me to like quality staking chains and then with cardano I also found Harmony I’ve been in harmony since like 2019 right right in 2019 2020 as a user um and part I mean I think that’s also part of the reason why I was Um pulled off of the the Tranquil negotiations um but um my own position um man I mean that ranges from like a PM Business Development um strategy um just involves a lot of uh difficult conversations and kind of being between the community and um core team is it’s not always the Greatest place to be but as someone who’s like a part of the community from like 2020 I mean I don’t really talk much on on community things and I have a different um pseudonym but um like just the the resilience of this community is is incredible and I’ve always said that like If Harmony is able to figure this out like they can fly um and it’s it’s something that I try to face every day um and push for because even like post hack post everything like everyone sticks together everyone still shows up uh the Discord can be a bit much Sometimes but I mean hey that’s that’s all right that’s better than just crickets um and and yeah we continue to push like the the way that I can reach out to certain validators or talk to people and everyone’s aligned on like the best interest for harmony is is Um both really exciting and really rewarding uh but also tough um because of the certain outcomes that that we have to face or certain loopholes or or things that we have to push through um like um one of them is is shaping governance um and drafting hips um So certain things like in the mission Dao um in the way that I see it is kind of a way that that we could potentially avoid being in in tranquil like situations in the future is is giving that power to the community right now you would have fund that could Potentially cover everything right um and then this would be something that’s completely Community to run like no one internally would be um participating on there’s a mission down um but I guess I we don’t really have too many titles um at Harmony so it’s it’s hard to pinpoint anything Uh my background is in computer science and philosophy um and I was going to go down to software engineering route but I had a few internships and I was like I don’t want to sit at the computer all day like this and instead I sat around my computer looking at nfts and Looking at crypto and diving into the the technology behind it and then got more passionate about decentralized governance and what you can actually do with the technology and then decided oh wait a minute is there a way that I can build or at least help build in the space and I’m Native to the area so I I’m really really close to the the harmony office and my my interview actually I didn’t know it was an interview I don’t know if this is uh if I’m just going off on a rant or if anyone wants to listen to this but um Uh I was asked to swing by the office just to have a visit so I was like okay like I just pulled up and like changed some t-shirt and didn’t think much of it and then I get in and it’s uh Stephen Lee and Casey like uh sitting down with My resume on this long table I was like oh goodness this is happening um and it was in it was an interesting uh interview I just uh proceeded to share my own opinions um about certain decisions and um about like the the ten thousand Dows the blue metaverse um the Apes And Diva kingdoms um and kind of went down a list of saying that Harmony is an incredible at at coming up with these initiatives um like leading the pack at times um blatantly copying ethereum at other times but um still like if we blatantly copied ethereum would be in a better place Because of fees and finality and all this stuff and and whatnot but I also mentioned that a lot of these initiatives don’t get fully thought out um and that’s something that I have continued to repeat almost on a daily basis is trying to narrow our Focus I Feel like ten thousand dollars if if thou’s are something that we want to do let’s narrow it down let’s just do doubts let’s not do a metaverse not do apes just do doubts focus on that skip all our attention there um or if it is a blue meta verse man Let’s make it the best metaverse that we can or if it is Apes for some reason or another we can maybe potentially make that the best for our ecosystem but we continually uh do is is look either for the next thing or we we don’t focus enough on the current thing Um and that’s something that I think the community has has been very vocal about and that’s something that we’ve noticed as well and it’s narrowing this Gap in my opinion isn’t about focusing on what to do right picking Dows or blue metaverse it’s listening to the community to see what We need to focus on um and that that link um is very close but it’s not being done um and Soph and I have had numerous discussions about it um like even even yesterday so we like uh go back and forth on best things to do and how to push this um But yeah that’s I mean I don’t want to just continue talking and ranting oh that’s great thank you for definitely we appreciate the presence that you guys are making and communicating and definitely keep it up much appreciated I’d like to start out with the question on uh the projected meeting stake around Uh 12 million which uh will put the lower bound to just under 8 million Um currently out of the 125 elected validators they would put 52 of them under the lower bounds I know that there’s a foundation stake is to a lot of them and you think that like the Valdez that are still active should be able to be okay yes in in my video world We can have all of the ones that are active and continue we’re we’re slowly doing a rotation of the the current staking initiative which is long overdue and has been delegating to inactive validators and validators who are unelected and also validators who have kind of Um like if you look at their main stake it’s like 99 is is from Harmony right so there’s uh we’re also looking at those that have made an effort of of kind of building their own Stakes but regardless just those that are completely inactive and those that uh are unelected frees up um About 56 million one tokens to then be redelegated to other people but if we also include staked out in there that would be 60 million from staked out so that’s 116 million uh that that potentially frees up um and which will be good which will go towards Um active validators and the way that it would work is currently the staking initiative kind of just places delegation and then just leaves um and then with validator fellows what we’re trying to do is is bridge this gap between community and internal it’s kind of having these Direct Communications um I believe even like a direct uh communication or or um chats or image or something with Stephen directly that I need to know more about I just heard about that uh I think yesterday um but what that would entail is is um every three months there would kind Of be this reassessment period and um if people aren’t as active or if um they decide to to stop their validator or something happens right like it’s it would be a more fluid rotation of of every three months reassessing okay who’s active um or if there’s like I don’t know say lifts list of 20 15 of them get chosen and then so that means that there’s five active that aren’t selected right we don’t want to leave them dead in the water what we want to do is have a rotation so that they can still participate and what that would Look like is probably every three months uh there would be a delegation rotation to include those people as well thank you that’s a good deal And the with the recent hip 30 update that came out um you think that’s uh finalized update or is there going to be is there any plans of another update coming out or at this point I should say uh at this point I think that that is The one that is is finalized there’s um uh I believe in the the Casey article there’s The only discrepancy was the the shards um deviation um and then internal talks yesterday was that um the deviation would be more of one that’s um difficult to process and also one That we can fine tune to see if uh in actuality it uh it has an impact um and something that we could change following hiv30 so the the current um snapshot I guess that I can um read real quick um would be uh so this governance vote is to Boost Network efficiency while accelerating recovery and ecosystem growth and then it says um hsp30 presents a full Improvement to our network with the following changes so again this is all bundled into one um splitting the annual token emission between staking and Recovery proportional to the number of nodes Where the emission per BLS key remains constant reducing the number of shards from four to two decreasing the total number of nodes from 250 to 200 for shard one to actively develop towards one second finality minimum validator commission raised from five to ten percent the mandates members and operating structure Of the emission down will be put forth in an additional governance proposal by the end of the first year of allocations so this is um so we’ve removed I guess yeah I guess there’s a slight change of just Clarity of saying that um the in statement of The emission Dow is removed until the first year of allocations um so that it also gives us a year to develop the emission down that way people have something that’s they can actually tangibly vote on whether they want to uh and state or not so then after the first year of allocations There would be a governance vote to to establish uh the emission Dao and what that means is that um the first year would just include um the funds going straight to recovery and that’s it um did you say that the validator minimum commission is going to get Raised to 10 percent did I hear that correctly correct I didn’t notice that in the hip VR the funds allocated towards recovery um we had a discussion here earlier because we I don’t know we’re using the proper terminology and not not you guys per se but like the community uh is Is the plan to just to completely eliminate all the depacked assets or is there an actual plan for a repack it would be um I guess a combination of both right that’s um the the plan continues too um clear the bad debt at the current rates and then increase them at some point Exactly when these would increase I I don’t know um but I think as as uh more and more about that is cleared uh or not sorry not bad that um Deepak assets um are cleared then we have the potential to uh to raise those rates um But it’s I would say it’s at this point it’s unknown whether it will go to 100 percent the idea is that as you burn all the DPAC assets right um those assets will be become rarer and in theory this will increase in value in case um right now what’s happening from what I Can see is that because of people or Bots are still a bit traging on that right but at one point um the debug assets quantity would be so less that they won’t be able to swap at the same price okay so um as I said as we burn more feedback Assets interior with the price should be going up yeah so after okay so after the let’s just say uh price goes back to two cents and it stays at that price for a significant amount of time and we rep are we achieve our our goal in 18 months Then what like what what so with the 50 emissions are that we took away from the uh from the rewards what are we gonna do with them then right so I mentioned about that um in a chat or even a talk for it right um the phone Um would be a variable right and it would be up to the emission down um to decide what to do okay and I was giving that crazy idea right what if the the entire date at 50 is being burnt so if you think about it right there’s a Very good chance that we can now be depressionary right now if we up to the emissioned out to actually decide what to do right if you want to support ecosystem with new projects or uh if you want to reduce uh uh that emission to something less why not okay we can also Decide that um put it fully back to to um 200 percent uh to staking why not okay I mean everything is possible here okay but the idea is that fun will be fully available for the image and dial to decide what to do maybe okay Phoenix did you have a question Who I guess uh since we’re on the emissions though who like who who was running the Dow how I’m sorry if I’m ignorant I don’t know if he answers to these questions but the missions dial like who’s in charge of that so this would be entirely the community um so um As we see it now we could potentially open up voting for um every token holder and then token holders would vote for certain people or certain validators to be put on the admission now but um ideally we would have a year to developers so this would be Um not necessarily just a a multi-sig that we call it that right this would be something more extensive and it’s a it’s a way to um to give the power to the community essentially um allowing them to decide where to allocate those emissions right like Exactly like so said is it burning is it ecosystem um is it back to the rewards for the validators like this is a um something that it wouldn’t be placed like where we just work on it internally and we say here’s the emission Dao um you guys have to stick to this um At least I well I’m speaking if this is I if I’m gonna lead uh this part of it then um it would be for a year with um with the community with validators it’s it’s creating the structure that’s able to sustain itself um and fix certain issues that Dallas face Of not necessarily making efficient decisions um members um with apathy like you can’t really make decisions so it would have to kind of have these safeguards and and be um essentially turning Harmony into a Dao so to speak where you would have a community that’s passionate Um funds for that community and then a governance structure to maintain um those funds and and that community and then an actual impact on the ecosystem right like these discussions of like oh if we got together as a community and put together These funds like um it would be pretty challenging Because it’s still like 400 something thousand dollars right so now through the emission Dao it allows the community to have this yearly funding that can be allocated where they please and then they can be voted on they can have different Specialties there can be like if people want to do the business side They can do different kpis of projects they can um they can do Partnerships as well um or they or they can burn right that there is that option and it gives I guess more fluidity and more power to the community um and it’s something that would definitely have to have A very robust governance structure and ideally for me I’d want it to be um completely Community run but also commit completely Community sustainable so this would be something that as soon as it’s instilled the community is able to make those decisions um and have those discussions and if people Want to make changes to the allocations say be like oh like let’s put 60 percent to um tranquil for for example right or something like that and then it’s like oh we have 40 okay let’s give 30 percent uh back to the validators because with tranquil we’re happy so now it’s the the Validators are now making a total of 75 rather than the um or not it wouldn’t be 75 um but anyway they would be making more uh than the current split and it’s like okay we have um ten percent five ten percent left over let’s burn it right and then Now we have a a position where we can burn something that’s more than uh than the gas fees that were were being born uh burned before because those were have created one tokens um whereas this one would be directly burning those that are emitted hey Ed thanks for joining us Do you have a question or anything hey uh Hey everybody um yeah I think one of the things I just wanted to touch on was the question or uh comment about uh let’s say we get everything cleared cleared up um what do we do with the admission rate And and how much we’re actually giving to validators um at the 441 uh million that we if we’re at right now basically um there’s a pretty high uh success threshold around how um how much utility how many people have to be on the network to make it viable For the tokens price to to give away that many tokens a year and so it seems to me like kind of going what with what Theo is saying that if there was such a directive of like let’s say we get to to Ground Zero again um there would still need to be some Level of reduced emissions to balance things out and and make things actually sustainable um but ideally it would be amazing if if there was some like level of of uh of ownership from the community and in that Dow format but um I think there’s a lot of of uh Lack of of faith in that direction as far as getting the community to actually own what’s left of the network um and so is there a feel a sense uh I guess the question I would just sort of move forward with I actually was going to just comment on Like his question was just we might actually still need to reduce the number of validators and the number of of rewards but um Zeo and and so if do you guys feel like there’s a uh uh a room for faith that uh people should have that the the Network’s going to be Um Dow controlled in any fashion like are we going to see more uh uh like actual decentralizing Authority to me I don’t see why not um I guess with a multi-seek DOT comprise only of community members um I guess that’s possible and that’s where we are trying to head um In terms of implementation so once the D6 and signatures Are all uh decided really that emission down in charge of that phone and that those one token that are on that wallet right uh you guys will be the one to decide okay but as Theo mentioned there will be like in one year Time because we don’t expect um during that first year we Implement that reduce emission right uh they will be going towards recovery okay uh and may last for 18 months for even longer if the price of one doesn’t even go up right but once it fully recovered You know at that point we hope that the emission down and the other community members in that um is already been defined and you know all the um in that emission that can decide on what they want to do next time you know so to me seems very plausible um I’m not sure why you you think that it’s not possible to happen I mean to me is is clearly possible now whether it can run smoothly that I can’t say right and that really depends on how the emission does being uh being built with all the color rails and everything right but uh At least for the setup of the multisig with the community members in that should be something that we can do with that major problem please yeah definitely technically it should be possible I was more thinking about um the uh leadership just like allowing for the uh over uh Community Control Um that that was more the the concern or the doubt it wasn’t about like if it can be done definitely can be done um but just that there’s some feeling of like um doubt around you know the leadership giving the reins to the community in that way um it seems Uh yeah that but that that feels like a realistic goal uh for at least for this initiative um to you yeah I think uh I can also speak on what so for saying that uh I mean I feel like just the dimensioning of Doubt Harmony’s is triggering um And and yeah and and the the thought of like the the overlooking um like internal control um like that like I completely understand where you’re coming from like there’s no um I guess previous um thing to go off of to say like oh okay like this will be completely Community run like Um and we’ll be able to control like all of these uh emissions like this is um this is something that that will help us all like uh I guess we regain some um I guess of a voice in the community but not necessarily a voice but but tying emissions to that voice um And have an actual impact um the way I would structure it um would be that in this summary I mentioned earlier like oh from the get-go like this is going to be the company’s going to be included but like I mean those are just words what what I Want that to look like is currently it’s it’s more internal battles uh that are being fought and and what I would do is kind of bring the community in uh directly so it would be the community um is or I mean value there’s anybody who wants to participate Is directly involved in the creation of this submission down and by that year what we’ll see is like okay like is this like effectively in community control right and that’s I mean it it might not be easy like I’m I’m seeing a little bit of of the the Worries that you’re mentioning of uh of having some pushback and everything but I think the community has a very strong voice um and it’s something that I’d like to open the doors to to have that voice be spoken internally so that can be a large group of people and and each day rather Than internally working on it and having discussions and me being like kind of this relay of of of community sentiment uh sandwich so like if it’s if it’s just us two like um we definitely can’t make like the the voice of the community any justice so for this governance like if we’re having An emission data that’s completely Community run to me it makes absolutely no sense that it would be internally defined um so for that I would want it to be as Community defined as possible and people are are happy uh with the way that it’s run so that once it’s it comes to the Vote of um its establishment there’s no questions right like it’s like okay we know exactly how it’s going to run we already have ideas of how we want to allocate those funds we have an idea of who we want to be in charge of it we Have an idea of how we want the checks and balances to work to make sure that it’s self-sustaining um and we we’re happy that the community has the full say and there’s no uh potential of like internal influence uh so to speak and does that feel like Uh feasible it feels like from the outside looking in the there’s been like a handful of of you know uh protocol team members like yourselves which I greatly appreciate To The Ends um uh polymorphic is is also in the battle grounds you know uh representing like decentralization and like the Ideals but it does seem like there’s been a huge pushback from the rest of the the core around not expecting that if there was some sort of organization that they shouldn’t be um kind of wedged in there somewhere um I think the the thought of how the Recovery effort went and and that we got regard of having like an inside man just sort of in in having some level of Sway and and can and governance and the is that not um is that something we should it seems like that’s going to be a continued Fight is that not the the case like we’re still fighting for like decentralization as an ethos uh as far as the the core protocol uh uh team is is concerned is that in some ways based on like fear or is that just a difference of opinion or I’m even misunderstanding is that Because I I I feel pretty confident that a lot of people have that opinion I mean based on the the yeah attitudes that I’m I’m encountering and then you you brought up a great example of of recovery in kind of this Um like I guess Placebo decentralized approach of saying oh we have ecosystem Partners right um and this specifically the emission dial yeah would be uh would be different it would be as if it was uh the community behind those partners that then allocate the funds right like it Wouldn’t be internal then partners then uh allocation funds so this is something that rather than having no say right the community has um no say on on internal discussions in this uh in this matter like there there are Community um columns I guess that people say okay like Um can we change this about R1 uh what about tranquil um what about these funds to modulo uh let’s get the pre-hack wallets make them be able to recover first right there are these uh kind of steps that happen but it’s something that we’re realizing internally is that one um Those needs aren’t always met and two if they are met it’s not done in a timely manner so this would be something that allows that to happen more directly because then now it would be the community themselves who has the power to to allocate the the way that they They see and that’s something that now rather than having the community is this um kind of voice in in the uh not either but like voice and uh in comparison to the internal team that makes the decision now its internal team is the ones that have uh voices but Ultimately the community is the one that makes the decision and I think for the admission to have to be successful that’s the only way that it can can happen uh thank you Theo saw Casey there for a second speaker I think it’s probably having problems with um no So if you you have a meeting to attend don’t you see myself in that meeting um I’ll just let Knox know that currently we are staying at meter space so um you still have last minute questions I think we can just you can see take those on um and uh yeah Uh since if we’re just kind of opening to questions around the the hip 30 um is the is one second finality about hip 30 is that is that been separated to some other aspect it’s the included is that um is that going to increase server costs as far as just you know having Twice as much twice as many blocks regularly um I don’t expect to have uh so there will be the expectation to have more storage being used okay um but for your validator nodes I don’t expect that to be that much and you can still have a snapdb to reduce that anyway Um but on the RPC side uh I believe there will be an increase in Costa yeah as of right now is uh hit 30 scheduled to go up to vote at a certain point we had some internal discussion and we want to um put that stuff at vote soon you know um yeah Um I just want to bring up uh thank you for everybody for showing up I see a lot of validators out there that’s good to see um this is a open space anybody that wants to request the mic is free to do so um just want to put that up there so if Anybody has any questions or anything just request the mic we can get you up here um is there still a plan as far as like um so if if we are going to one second finality would that complicate like eventually being able to have external um leader nodes Uh because I feel like it seems like that was a problem in the past as far as switching to less centralized leader nodes um where the amount of time it takes to actually sync them up was was needing to be more than than two seconds um is there a A reason one second finality is being kind of pushed through I’m committee once when finite is for us to prove about technology Investments that we can achieve that one second which to to me uh we should be able to do um shot one two three with no transaction Two they can only do one second finality but our code base is actually posing that enforce the node to be two second okay um you just have to we look at the shot zero okay and uh reducing the numbers of keys uh is is one way to also reduce the data yeah so If if we do have a successful uh I don’t know what the term for the the token allocation of of foundation funds to keeping validators that are engaged on the network um is there still an expectation that we should lose and and kind of need to to lose some number of validators correct Like we that’s that’s sort of a part of of this whole like drive for the the HIV 30 is is you know we we need to cut costs and we need to you know increase revenue for the remaining uh validators is that is there like a hard number that we’re expecting To say like this is how many num validators we should be able to to have on the network okay we don’t have that number today if you ask me um and I don’t know what would be a good number uh to be honest right now okay Um but to me if you do things well um the numbers of validator that we are going to lose won’t be that much if you ask me okay it all depends on the big stickers the big violators and how they manage their keys okay and if the if the If they actually do things not to use too many key slots I believe if we should be able to keep everyone in now okay now I can’t predict what would everyone would do right um and there was some other ideas to have only one BRS Keys per violators and All those stuff you know if you do so definitely if you want to be in right uh but you know uh I don’t have yet you know we haven’t decided to get uh that we will go with only one data series okay but even if you review the current E-pos system if the big fighter does would be to reduce the numbers of keys they use in the network right uh I think that there should be ways you know to uh have everyone in I don’t I mean uh I mean we have some of these big validators on the chat I don’t Know if they would be willing to come up and talk but it seems like that’s not likely to happen right they’re not like the biggest validators we have are a pretty profit driven to be respectful right there’s been a problem in the past two like they’re we just have some big Validators and they uh they have a large bag and you know they yeah it seems like that’s one Mission we can’t really do much about like we can decentralize we can talk about having shared ownership but getting people to kind of step back from their profits to to keep People alive is never really been a a viable pathway right hey Nick thanks for joining us uh let me let me touch on that real quick I thought I was gonna answer um yeah I think there’s um certainly the approach of like um the best interests of I don’t know The pursuit of like uh of a bag right like you you want to do what’s most profitable um and also the the best uh interest of I guess longevity of the chain and then of seeing like the the short term um losses and rewards for the longer term Influence of uh of the the chain itself um in in the sense of um having a direct impact on token appreciation um but that’s something that’s very very difficult and I would say impossible to um to calculate um and to to expect validators to uh to agree on in the current state of Something that’s like we have no idea what the emission doubt would look like right like I have uh a clear idea in my head of like the most optimal way that it would be and I and I hope it could reach something like that but I’m sure so if and and everyone else Might have a different one and and the goal of of that first year is to figure out which which way is best and and kind of pull from everybody’s ideas um as for the number of validators yes like there definitely will be um a reduction like an inherent to the Optimization of the chain um and this ideally will be a reduction of the inactive ones um and with the support of the the validator fellows of this like initiative that includes treasury funds that can um help validators um so this could be any range of like currently we delegate to I think it’s Like 71 validators but um I think this would probably be a little bit more optimized so if we um if people were to reduce their um uh their keys to be most optimized in the new scenario like there’s one there’s two calculate calculations that I did one was proportional and this was In the the recent post on the Forum um that had to do with uh the 52 to 23 Max Key reduction right and that gives us um I think it was um 71 or 72 validators that that meet this uh this requirement of the lower bound But again if we do take it as the um validators that say I guess maximize their keys and then use similar Trends to what they did um the the quick calculation of that was was down to to about 21 validators but then now if it is that we are delegating To 71 people then we’d get up to about 90 validators so it’s it’s something that um for for each key like even currently right like um a large validator will separate their keys to a certain amount but then smaller validators will be able to I guess uh one-up like the the smallest Key of a electric validator and that’s how we’re able to have more decentralization now and I think that the same like I guess Game Theory aspect would continue on the in the new um like post Hipp 30.I joined a little bit later so probably you answer this question but from what I Just heard from there so my question is very very simple why you don’t reconsider again with updated hip 30 uh not to go the multiple layers he approach but to use one bill is key because from for now what I see is that effective mechanism of consensus efforts yes it is Not so effective as it was claimed previously and with the system of going the way multiplayer Skipper validator even if we reduce it from 52 to 24 it will not resolve the problem of reports and let’s say just like if going with one Village keeper validator approach Effective Force also will take a very good will play a very good role for the fairness for the redistribution of the state because usually data this way they will definitely be more higher than Upper bound and this way people will be forced to delegate the estate to other validators and it is also a case for the small validators to participate with even a small stake which will be less than just uh necessary Media or necessary lower bound so why did you not I mean just like not you personally but I mean the team my team don’t consider to have one bill is key and use it force in this case and while you still Force us to go with a multiple ASP approach research in a significant change for the world consensus thank you Nick I I think we can discuss that okay um I I just want to see all the impacts and consequences of doing so and how do you decide which key goes to which shot and all those stuff you know those operational stuff you know uh Or maybe we can go features with one BST per shot I don’t know okay uh that might be a good solution as well so if you have two shards and the maximum BTS key that a variator would have would be two okay and they would have to run two different Nodes one shot zero and one shot one okay but uh I’m not going to say that we haven’t think about it okay there was um community members violators who mentioned about that so we briefly think about that for the ballot but you know we could Implement that you know I mean I keep saying right um the protocol it just got right and at the end whatever logic and whatever we can think of could be implemented okay you just a matter of how what is the impact of the operational side of it okay and um how complicated would be the code Base later on okay because usually in order to support the code base you want a simple code as well okay um so yeah I mean I can touch base with the team internally on that idea but I can’t promise it would be part of hip of hip 30 okay but uh yeah yeah Go ahead okay okay just a second just like okay so uh thanks for your clarification from what I see right now there is a bottleneck of technical implementation like you said yeah but uh I do understand that yeah I don’t understand that everything is uh it’s about the code and how you can Change it yeah for sure but my question is just like yes when you was reviewing these two approaches like multiple as key and let’s say just like one belays Keeper in node which means two keys uh for the validator in general for two sharks why did you Decided uh why did you decide to prefer uh multiple s Keys instead of one below is key go or not per shot this is the question because uh we raised this question just like with the first iteration of hap 30 and then they’ll posted an updated proposal and updated Proposal also included multiple as key approach and no explanation for why multiple is key is preferred it’s preferable for your for the team because of the code and the technical implementation so then okay but I think maybe the risk could be in another point of view thank you Let me understand as well because I know at one point we were saying to have only one beer Escape node right which is completely different from a one biggest keeper validator because the one PLS keeper node is just a client side okay when I say client I’m different with your Harmony binary So I think I made that comment at one point is that if you were to go with one business key per node anyone else could look at the harmonic code base we found the multi-bls key and build their own versions of the harmony binary to have new tplst okay What I was referring to is to have one prsp per validator or eventually per validator and per shot okay which as I said I may have read it but I think I need to put some more thoughts into it to understand all the complexities I was mentioning before okay um And that’s why we remove that uh and that’s why we remove that the blst versus one bit Escape or not because at the end uh anyone can just look at the harmonical page and re-implement button which is basically for their own use okay so there is also the question thank you There there is also the question of I mean isn’t like uh the BLS Keys actually you know a part of the the consensus mechanism that is is tied to the amount of of uh of of of of nodes or uh cores on the on the Node so it actually is using Uh you know most nodes have multiple cores and so the idea of having just one BLS Keys is not actually as effective for the the consensus isn’t it like we we get more uh actual uh validation of the network with having a few BLS keys on one node Um is that is that not am I misunderstanding that so um so the idea was that running before this key should improve the performance okay but uh to me the CPU and memory and storage or other CPU in memory right today even for the big violatators right Um is not that big of a hurdle okay but the original idea of using one business key it was also that what you just mentioned is to improve the performance okay uh but the other advantage of having that was also to have a redundancy of the node because today if Uh multi-plus key node is going down and you run for instance five Keys those five keys are offline right but if you were to run five different node for those five Keys uh bringing down those five nodes at the same time it’s a little bit more difficult if you were to Use different service provider right so but uh yeah that was those advantages that uh we had previously you know all right are there any more about is that would like to come up anybody that would like to come up with any questions or anything or comments was there a an understanding of what Happened as far as Casey’s availability if if we’ll have an opportunity to talk to to him um or if that’s just not uh did something happen um well it was his it’s very early in the morning for him um I don’t know if so for Theo no more but I’m guessing he probably slept through as an alarm and he had a developer’s beating to go to so um right I’m not sure what happened okay uh but he briefly joined that Twitter space but that was at the time where we had the protocol meeting right and There’s a time where I was finished telling you guys that uh told Max that I will stay here for now okay so to wrap up everything that you may want to ask them do you have any questions you want to ask Casey that I can try to answer maybe um yeah I think Uh there’s some some question around why one second finality is is being pushed forward I’m not sure where that directive is coming from um there’s there’s also I think there’s a kind of negative perception about not showing up um there is a feeling of of wanting more core involvement and yeah um I I can appreciate him being busy but you know it’s early here too um but I think uh as well as just the one second finale question I think um I I don’t think it’s good that he did he came and left I think it’s it it’s a bad look That’s worth mentioning to him but it’s a lot of dedicated people trying to make the community come together um so yeah um yeah understand um let me talk to him because I can’t say what happened with his schedule this morning uh whether he in his or what I can’t say right um yeah Um yeah sorry about that I don’t have the answer for you on that one oh I really appreciate everybody’s showing up so Theo and everybody else um uh anybody has any questions now would be the time um if not then I don’t wanna tie up everybody’s day but Speak now if ever hold you peace I just want to say thank you to to soften and for Theo um thank you for this call and for all of the work that you’re doing um so much uh to to actually you know represent what so much of the People here are uh interested in what brought in the Harmony and you guys are exemplary members of the community and yeah I’m sure you deal with a lot of people crap uh Jose and I just wanted to say thank you um for for you know going above and beyond I’d also like to say thanks for everybody for coming thanks for your time uh we can organize I don’t know if this is a good time for everybody or not it seemed like we had good uh uh involvement last time and this one seems like a success too uh I just wanted to Thank everybody moving forward I look forward to uh more communication in the future thank you thank you everyone have a great day have a good night oh hey clay uh just uh gave you the mic did you have something you want to say thanks for joining us Yeah I mean I’ve been listening the entire time I’m just kind of lurking but I wanted to ask like it feels like there hasn’t been I mean Beyond like what has been posted as far as hips go um what is the harmony team doing to build back trust besides like trying to Come up with methods for re-pegging and um maybe moving past deep pegged assets like what is the harmony team doing specifically to regain the trust of the community because it feels like at this point the community has been very vocal about the things that they want to see And the harmony team has just taken it upon themselves to say yeah we’re not really doing that we’re going to do our own thing so um what is the the goals I guess to to regain that Community Trust that’s been lost I think that’s a great question and the one that if We fully answer we fully get to an answer I think that that results in the direct success of Harmony that might be my own personal opinion but I I think you’re you’re touching exactly on on where we we’ve kind of uh dropped the ball on whether that’s like continuously dropping the ball Um or or not right I think the direct way is is further empowering the community uh in a sense of hey like we trust you guys we want to give you the full uh allocation of these emissions with full control right um whether that looks down the line of Including hey you know what like um this year like we we have no D5 maybe let’s let’s uh the community can decide to allocate funds to D5 and then the the trust in the sense is it’s not so much how will the Community Trust um Harmony right I think the Um the response uh at least from my perspective is how do we get Harmony to trust the community right like the I think the the issue isn’t necessarily with the community I think the issues internally and if we’re able to empower the community and see like just how much Like benefit that is to empower it right and and give it direct decisions like I was mentioning earlier of of um actually allowing the voice of the community to have a direct impact rather than just limiting it to being a voice I think that’s step one and then step two Internally is continuing these D5 Primitives I think when you have a chain that has nothing like what’s the point of having a technically Superior chain if you can’t do anything with it um I mean I might I might be a little bit biased but that’s just my own Perspective on on like what an ecosystem should have like you you need to have at the very minimum Primitives I mean that’s why they’re called Primitives in the first place and currently Harmony has none of them right like there there is tranquil to a very limited capacity right um So the first step two I guess would be delivering these these Primitives right allowing a use case for harmony right and whether that’s with ecosystem Partners um internally or Community right it’s continuing to push these so that there’s something that people can actually do and use Harmony right like a lot of People came in through D5 kingdoms right they didn’t really necessarily come in because of the cheap fees and the um device finality right like it’s building on top of that that makes Harmony so successful um and then you can spread across and you have like people going to to Mars colony people Um mention different avatars you have Knights and peasants like you you have different things that people can can do on the chain and I think those on top of the community is the next thing that gives a chain uh its value right because at the base layer you have the community You have people that are uh interacting with the chain you have people that are sharing the chain you have people that are validating the chain right these are the people that kind of um are the base layers right the foundation and then on top of that you have use cases right so First I would say how do we rebuild trust it’s internal trusting the community right empowering the community to make those decisions and removing ourselves from certain decisions because uh we have shown that in in the past certain decision that we’ve made aren’t the best ones right and that’s the Number one thing that I think that we need to change and kind of either narrow down that Focus or further empower the community to to be the ones who not necessarily have the burden but have the opportunity uh to make those decisions for themselves um and then step two is to continue Um working on these uh um initiatives awesome thanks man I also uh want to Second what Ed said though like having this discussion and Casey not show up is a really really terrible look as as far as trust goes uh with the community so um that was that was definitely not appealing Yeah this is something that um so finite noted and uh we’ll share it we’ll make sure to share it internally as well oh oh thank you very much so Theo Ed Patrick Nick app Nation crypto clay and Butthead and everybody else that showed up today um Much appreciated we’ve got a lot of good discussion and um definitely keep doing what you guys are doing so open Theo we’ve we’ve definitely appreciate it um thank you so much for joining us and helping out thank you everyone yeah thank you for having us thanks for coming out everybody My name’s Rob AKA Peace Love Harmony I hope everybody has a great day evening have a good one everybody foreign HIP-30 aims to drive network efficiency and transaction finality, expedite recovery and application development, and create the framework for sustainable growth and broader governance participation.This update integrates community feedback, setting a trajectory to improve network utilization further.
Additionally, this proposal advances our ambitious objective of achieving 1-second finality, accelerates the resolution of depegged assets, and establishes a foundation for community-driven use cases and ecosystem expansion.This effort marks the beginning of a new and improved era of Harmony, promoting sustainable growth and greater network effectiveness.We continue to value everyone’s ongoing support and input as we collaboratively navigate this path.
Why HIP-30: Drive Network Efficiency and Application Utility Our vision for network utilization revolves around two key aspects: efficiency and practical use.Technological improvements that streamline operations and boost network performance, as demonstrated in our proposal’s ambitious goal of achieving 1-second finality, bring with them unparalleled efficiency.Network utilization is equally about putting our network to practical use through carefully selected use cases.This is where the community plays a vital role.To facilitate this process, the governance structures within the Emission DAO, developed in collaboration with the community during the first year after the network upgrade, will ensure that emission funds are directed toward the selection and development of these use cases.By implementing HIP-30, we optimize for both efficiency and application, resulting in a technologically advanced, community-driven network.Details of HIP-30 HIP30-1: Splitting the annual token emissions between staking and ecosystem development.
Keeping the token emission for staking proportional to the number of nodes on the network.
HIP30-2: Reducing the number of shards from 4 to 2.HIP30-3: Decreasing the total number of nodes from 250 to 200 for Shard 1 for faster finality and actively developing towards 1-second finality.HIP30-1: Splitting the annual token emissions between staking and ecosystem development.The proposed emission split is proportional to the number of nodes on the network.The current 441.5 million ONEs emission is allocated for 1000 nodes.
With the proposed 450 total nodes, it would equate to 45% of 1000 nodes, and thus the proposed emissions to staking would be 45% of the 441.5 million, which is 198.675m ONEs.Timeline: HIP-30 Snapshot Vote HIP-30 Pass HIP-30 Hard Fork Implementation with Updated Emissions Start of 242.825m ONE Allocation Towards Recovery Development of Governance Structures With Community Development of Emission DAO End of first 242.825m ONE Allocation Emission DAO Guides Future Emission Allocations Initial Allocation: All of the ecosystem split (242.825M ONE) will go towards recovery.These funds will be distributed in the form of burning and redemption of de-pegged assets.The burning and redemption of depegged assets will operate in a manner similar to what is currently being done with recovery partners.
The specifics of how the ecosystem split will be utilized towards these efforts are detailed below.Modulo has utilized a sliding scale variable return rate to push for the highest burn efficiency.Recovery1 is working on reducing bot interactions and focusing on pre-hack wallets with a whitelist of pre-hack addresses.Tranquil continues with its market buy and burn method.They will continue to take feedback to best serve the community.At our current recovery contributions, we estimate that substantially all depegged assets could be removed in around 91 months.Outcome: With the proposed emission split of HIP-30, we estimate that substantially all depegged assets could possibly be removed within 18 months under the current process.Timelines may change depending on any number of factors related to user participation in recovery and general market conditions.
Other potential allocation splits such as the 10%-90% allocation from the original post could lead to an even quicker recovery process.Governance: During the initial allocation, where the ecosystem split will go towards recovery, governance plans will be proposed and created in collaboration with the community to clearly define the process for handling and allocating the ecosystem split in subsequent years.If a proper governance structure is not put in place by the time the first 242.825m ONE has been allocated, future allocation will continue to go towards recovery.
After Initial Completion: Once 242.825M ONE have been allocated towards recovery, the upcoming allocation of funds will be determined with community support per governance structures created during the first allocation.This governing body will be able to allocate percentages of the ecosystem split towards continuing recovery, reward stakers, or provide funding for new proposals.source.
